Rush suggests that we blame liberals for the Holocaust Museum shooting.

FAIRNESS DOCTRINE ANYONE?

That WOULD stop a lot of this garbage!

Oh, Chris, this is sad.  Why does politics even have to come into this?  There's extremists on both ends of the spectrum, why does this have to involve finger pointing?  The jokes from Letterman were in very poor taste, and the jokes about Chelsea were cruel.  Do you remember the cruelty shown to Amy Carter?

We can't blame any group for a single lone-wolf terrorist.  Whether we're talking about the man who murdered Dr. Tiller, Private Long or Officer Johns, mentally-ill people don't go around killing people because they seek approval from particular groups.  These people do what they do because they are delusional.

Very astute observation. Thanks.

Not in this case anyway, Megan.  :)  And David :)

On the other hand, sometimes it's obviously some group or other because, well they post on youtube or write letters claiming "credit" and such.

But irt the topic sentence in this article?  Well, amof Rush was agreeing with you too.   ---- 

Here is what I heard from several news outlets - as I remember it.

Some left wing ... sigh... Some people on tv as well as here on Gather were calling the guy a right wing fanatic.  Rush's examples were valid and true from the guy's papers showing he had also targeted people and groups from the right.  He hated everyone; he wasn't right or left.  

But, so goes Rush's reasoning as I understood it as I listened to him, if someone thought there was reason to blame the right, and or particular people or groups perceived to be rightwing pundits or nuts ... there are also many valid reasons to blame those same kinds of people on the left.  That is, if someone really wants to "go there" (as they say).

If you don't think it is politics what do you think it is? it is the Right that has taken over the gOP and they will not be satisfied thill either David Dukes or Adolph Hitler is in power!

"We can't blame any group for a single lone-wolf terrorist"

Wanna bet? Do some research and you will discover some things that just might shock you into reality. Ayran Brotherhood, Army of God, etc...These "lone wolves" don't come up with these ideas all by themselves!  AND, Hate Radio douche bags like Limbaugh are feeding them every single day!

"AND, Hate Radio douche bags like Limbaugh are feeding them every single day!"

Your comments clearly illustrate that there are just as many on the hate-mongers on the left as there are the right. 

Same with TV and radio.  A person only has to watch Countdown with Keith Olberman once to realize he's every bit as radical as Sean Hannity.

There are also left wing hate groups, e.g. the Black Panthers.

And who are we blaming for the shooting of Private Long?  Are we blaming left wing radicals who oppose the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?

The difference between Olberman and Hannity is that when Olberman speaks he has some facts to backup his comments.

Don't confuse the girl with facts, Kevin. Her mind is made up!

I think the extremes on both sides are a problem.  What happened at the Holocaust museum was horrendous.  That kind of extremism is dangerous and I sure don't know anyone who would do that or go along with those kind of beliefs.  I am always shocked when horrible things happen.  I expect better of my fellow human beings.

Faith,

I totally agree.  Radicals from both the left and the right are spewing so much hatred that it's sickening.

Besides Olberman who on the left side of the spectrum is spewing hate. I personally don't think Olberman spews any hate. Certainly not like.. OReilly, Hannity, Savage, Limbaugh, Robertson, Ingram, Terry, Duke.. The list  goes on but several of these people have called Tiller a mass murderer for performing LEGAL abortions. The bile that emenates from their mouths is sad.

When has Rush ever taken responsibilty for the consequences of anything he says?

Faith hate on both sides are bad but, the only thing that cannot be tolerated is intolerance. Sadder still is that the left has not produced too many Fascists.

Come on, louis, the blame game doesn't help any, it just serves to inflame all the more.  Third force entities are always sad in our society, whether political or apolitical.  There is intolerance on both sides, and equally wrong, and left-wing extremists are still alive & well.  Left-wing Extremism:  The Current Threat

cathi

left wing extremists aren't exactly running around with guns killing everyone they disagree with....the blame game? as in 8 years of calling anyone that disagreed with policies un american? really that didn't work? i seem to remember lots of dead soldiers in Iraq....fascists need to be confronted. 1938 was not that far different than today. BTW nice title...the current threat? really? listen to Rush much? hahaha

Well, louis, I'm glad you like the title.  It's a report that was prepared for the US Department of Energy, Office of Safeguards & Security, hahaha.  Actually I don't listen to Rush, but apparently you do.  And yes, the blame game, whether you are running around with guns killing everyone you disagree with (wow, do you have an active imagination!) or sending explosives in the mail, or developing particularly nasty viruses, it's all bad.  I also remember a lot of dead soldiers, including ones I knew personally, thank you.  Those who were killed in Iraq are considered Islamic extremists.  Islamists are actually considered left wing.

Thank you, louis, for giving me the opportunity to point all of this out.

HA if it was prepared FOR by whom? the Bushies? lol

point out? Islamists left wing? they are conservative in thought. religious based...wanting the SAME outcome for their people as the radical right wants here a THEOCRACY....that is not in any way leftist or liberal Cathi L....that is conservative.

Lumping everyone killed in Iraq as an extremist is what got us there in the first plavce. FACT based reality sweetie.

Thanks You for allowing me to point all of this out.

Point all what out, louis?  What have you pointed out?

#1  I don't know who the "bushies" are but I know the Bush Administration has been in power the last 8 years while the Obama Administration has been in power for the last, what?  5 months or so?  So yes, the majority of reports will in fact be prepared for the Bush Administration.  If you look up:  (U//FOUO) Leftwing Extremists Likely to Increase, Use of Cyber Attacks over the Coming Decade, 26 January 2009, (U) Prepared by the Strategic Analysis Group, Homeland Environment and Threat Analysis Division - you'll be able to find the Homeland Security report that was prepared for, again, the Bush Administration, but as it clearly states, didn't come out until January 26, 2009, and is used by the Obama Administration.  Since there were no objections by the Obama Administration, then it stands as written.

#2  Yes, there are documented alliances between left-wing extremism and Islamists.  For one, the global anti-war movements are left-wing.  Or were you only considering the US?  There actually are other countries!  The anti-war movement in Western Europe is an alliance between the radical left and hard-line Islamists built around three themes:  hatred of the US, the dream of wiping Israel off the map, and the hoped-for collapse of the global economic system.  The main argument against the Afghanistan invasion and subsequent invasion of Iraq were on the grounds of pacism, international law, and opposition to what many perceive as US imperialism.

Check out Iranian writer Amir Taheri and he'll spell this all out for you, oh, uh, sweetie.

"The Holocaust is a lie. Obama was created by Jews. Obama does what Jew owners tell him to do. Jews captured America's money. Jews control the mass media. The 1st Amendment is abrogated --henceforth,"

-from a note found in Von Brunn's car.

A November 2008 'net post that appeared under von Brunn's name declared, "There is no Obama documentation -- no records -- no paper trail -- none -- this is no accident. It is being done on purpose with Media help -- but to serve whom & why???"

Apparently a fan of the Obama birth certificate conspiracy theory too. Definitely a leftist, right.

Cathi, left wing extremists do exist. Unabomber was left wing, sort of. Right wing extremists tend to be better with a gun, and always own one.

I've seen that.  Left-wing tends to have a higher education than right-wing extremists, and tend to employ more technology.  I've read both reports from FAS.  I think left-wing extremists were more vocal in the 70s and 80s, but defintely still around.  I really feel for the families involved here.  No one deserves to be so affected by this type of ignorance.

I don't buy into the Barack the Magic Negro comment, though.  The song was around prior to Rush promoting the song and it's a parody of an article written in the LA Times.  The writer of the article should bear most of the brunt here, the parody was making fun of the article.  I don't remember if you were a party to the discussion on the origins of all this?

"we've been attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of our culture". one Rev Ray Mummert.....

The real issue is the lack of desire to improve themselves. The know nothingness of the movement the condescension about being educated........gotta love it!

Cathi, I don't know all the ins and outs of the Magic Negro thing. I guess I should, since I am addressing it. Of course with these irritant bits one always has the choice of ignoring or replying. sometimes a hard choice. I generally choose to ignore very little.

One underlying issue here is the relationship between talking and shooting. Obviously talking is what we want to do, shooting is what we do not want to do. When you speak politically out of a gun barrel instead of your mouth, you have walled yourself off from humanity and pretended to become God. That's unacceptable, no matter which political "language" you speak, right or left.

Going beyond that obvious point, there is great debate going on about the role of talk in instigating shooting. For me, I think it does play a role. the more inflammatory the talk, the greater the role it plays in the psyche of a potential shooter. Others say, no, there is an absolute line between talk and shoot, and there is NO gray area. Someone #1 can rant all day long about ATF storm troopers coming to get your guns, but if someone #2 shoots an ATF agent, it had nothing to do with Someone #1. I don't think reality is quite that simple, but yeah there is a categorical difference between shooting and talking.

I know you chose to ignore very little.  I appreciate that fact and thought bringing up the Magic Negro information would be something you may want to read up on.

As to the talking part, I don't agree that Rush is all that much to blame, and I don't think reintroducing the Fairness Doctrine is acceptable.  No, I don't listen to Rush, I have read one Ann Colter book and felt she was too extreme for me.  But the increase in hate crimes is definitely more than people tuning in to Rush every day.  We live in a very violent society.  Listen to violent music, watch violent movies and TV shows, play violent games.  If Rush were silenced, I doubt it would have much affect.  Plus that would cause programs to move underground where they couldn't be easily monitored.  I do, however, believe that all media plays a great role in all of this hate. It sure sells papers.

I wish I had an alternative to offer.  It's easy to say more education but the reality of that isn't feasible.

Cathi,  Something I never connected before you said what you did above. You said:

"But the increase in hate crimes is definitely more than people tuning in to Rush every day.  We live in a very violent society.  Listen to violent music, watch violent movies and TV shows, play violent games.  If Rush were silenced, I doubt it would have much affect."

It's amazing ... society has to endure the most graphicly rendered and violence strewn horror and sex based movies, music, tv shows - as well as commercials if you can believe it, and games for the sake of the first amendment (then we wonder why people are going wonky).  And if anyone speaks against what those media celebrate, or speaks against any of those media in particular ... those people are in danger of violating someone's rights. 

But if someone speaks their mind about what they see happening in current events - as Hannity etc do (vociferously but necessarily I think) ... wellll ... time to bring out the old fairness doctrine and shut them up.  +shrug+

For example ...
Here:  http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24009077/
And here:  http://www.suntimes.com/news/24-7/1609501,chicago-girl-beating-hair-cut-fight-060509.article

These children who seem to have stunted morals and a stunted ability to listen to or grow a conscience are not learning violence from talk radio and, neither are the other nuts in this country.

Chris,

Can you provide a link to the source of your post?

BTW did anyone actually hear what Rush said? Chris did you?

Well one of the first thing Rush did was to play several recordings of the knee jerk reaction by the media to this killing as right wing inspired.

You might not like Rush or his positions but to accuse him and other right wingers of being responsible for such acts is nothing more than an attempt to get people to react like...well like Louis reacted,

"FAIRNESS DOCTRINE ANYONE?"

What Rush said

In agreement with you Dan.

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_061109/content/01125106.guest.html

there's the archive of his complete show. I cut out a snippet, but I changed nothing.

Rush Limbaugh loves to keep the pot boiling. When it boils over and someone gets burned, it's never Rush's fault. He's not elected, he has nobody to answer to but his sponsors, who all love the ratings he is enjoying. Accountability none. Rush technically abhors homicidal violence, but if you watch his face with the sound turned down, there is plenty of hate there, and his audience does not miss that fact. No, he is not the only one, and yes, some of them are on the left.

his share of responsibility for extremist murders is insignificant perhaps compared to the personal psychological permutations of a man like von Brunn, but we do not live in a vacuum as regards political speech. For every action there is an equal reaction.

yes jeremiah Wright is also a mess who deserves to be ignored. He largely is ignored. But Rush is listened to with rapt attention by millions weekly.

"jeremiah Wright is also a mess who deserves to be ignored. He largely is ignored."

Except that he was a large influence for close to twenty years on the man who now occupies the White house.

An important fact not to be left out.

Chris,

Freedom of speech is not delt out in degrees we either have it or we don't. You either support it or you don't.

"He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from opposition; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach himself."
Thomas Paine

Unlike many on either side, I would never suggest removing the right just because I don't like what they say.

Chris, I am glad that you vented for all of us to share.

He has a journalism degree and was a film maker! Maybe with that scary background we should keep an eye out for those with that background.

inflammatory language is something we all have the right to employ, up to the point that we can be convicted of participation in a conspiracy.

having the right to something does not always signify that it is a good idea to take advantage of that right.

I wonder if anti-Semitism is a form of mental illness.  Anti-Semites endow the Jews with superhuman abilities to influence world events.  It is irrational.  I can think of two mentally ill people -- Ezra Pound and mathematician John Nash, who were anti-semitic when their illness was uncontrolled.

I find it interesting that there are real conspiracies -- such as mortgage fraud schemes, the AIG debacle and others, but these conspiracies never seem to excite the lunatics.

Rush Limpaugh is part of the problem.

His hate rhetoric pushes the feeble minded over the edge.

Left wing radicals are as dangerous as right wing radicals.

That said, on the right, you have seemingly sane people, promoting this stuff at times openly. I don't know how many times I've heard on the radio right wingers mention coup d'Etat with respect to Obama, and "someone doing the right thing" now that Obama won. What the heck is the right thing to do? These folks incite violence and should be dealt with

yes Alan. We need to reply, please define the "right thing" into this recording device, and see you in court.

Micky, I don't hear liberals calling our soldiers baby killers. Maybe you read things that I don't. The standard political line for liberals over the last 9 years has been, let's be proud of our men and women in uniform, even if we disagree strongly with the policies of their commander in chief in the case of GWB.

That being said, there were a few documented cases of U.S. soldiers executing prisoners in Iraq and in Afghanistan, and the well publicized case in Iraq of 3 soldiers raping a teen age Iraqi girl and executing her and her entire family to hide the evidence. It did happen, in a few isolated cases. But it was certainly not the norm.

I notice that you changed the subject from Limbaugh. Perhaps some of the things that Limbaugh says are hard to defend.

Micky, I don't hear liberals calling our soldiers baby killers. Maybe you read things that I don't. The standard political line for liberals over the last 9 years has been, let's be proud of our men and women in uniform, even if we disagree strongly with the policies of their commander in chief in the case of GWB.

I wish I could agree with you on this statement, Chris.  While the majority of the anti-war movement has been fairly decent to our military, some didn't get the memo.

If you remember Darren's article - Welcoming Home Those Who Served - I added a detailed comment of examples of situations our military have faced with left-wing groups:

There IS a significant difference between the way troops were treated during Vietnam and how they are viewed now.  That being said, there are still hold-outs with that mind set and we need to work harder to prevent this.

Here is one person on Gather who has personally been affected by this:

I Was SPIT On!!!

Apparently, I Deserved to Be Spit On....

No HONOR in DISHONORING Our Troops!

Utterly Shocked... And Thinking Of Leaving Gather...

I know my own son and his friends have had similar treatment.  Plus the activities of the following on military recruiters:

April 2006: UC Santa Cruz students ambushed military recruiters. Vandals at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill tossed cans of red paint in front of an ROTC office and spray-painted vulgarities all over its doors. University of Minnesota students splattered red paint all over an Army recruiting station.

December 2006: Protesters in Lawrence, Kansas crippled business at an Army/Navy recruitment center, where workers' car tires were slashed and bomb-proof glass had to be installed.

January 2007: Pittsburgh protestors shut down a recruitment station for a day, wielding signs calling recruiters 'child predators'.

March 2007: Vandals broke into a Milwaukee recruitment station wielding crowbars.

July 2007: A protestor in Bremerton, Wash., slashed tires of Army recruiting vehicles to protest the Iraq war because he 'hated the military'. In Maryland, vandals smashed a Rockville Air Force career center. In Lufkin, Texas, Navy recruiters were the targets of vandals who keyed their cars, smashed their windows and shot at their vehicles with 'what appeared to be a high-powered pellet gun.'

August 2007: In Stamford, Conn., a protestor twice left a fake bomb package at a military recruitment office.

September 2007: An anti-war group calls on followers to commit fraud to interfere with military recruiters. Anti-war protestors shut down the Times Square recruitment station.

October 2007: An anti-war group defaces the Berkeley recruitment office.

January 2008: Protesters chain themselves to the Berkeley recruiting center to shut it down, and vandalize the windows with bloody handprints and signs branding recruiters 'death pimps'.

February 2008: Vandals trash the recruiting station at 14th and L Streets in Washington, DC, which has been subjected to multiple attacks.

I'm not naive to think that there aren't some recruiters don't lie in their tactics.  But there are honest recruiters out there and shouldn't be held responsible for the bad apples.  Plus this is their job.  We have been short on troops, hence the number of multiple deployments and short recovery times for individuals.  We've got ivy league colleges banning recruiters from their property and a city in California (Berkeley) issuing parking permits to Code Pinkers to be able to take up multiple spaces directly in front of recruitment centers.  The same group proud of defiling and shutting down these same centers.

that does make troubling reading, Cathi. On behalf of the left wing, sorry about that crappy behavior and property damage.

The worst of course was the murdered recruiter, in Arkansas? Property can be fixed, obviously murder is forever.

t

I can't blame an entire side of a political spectrum for the actions of these people.  Let's face it, there are ignorant people all over.  Hopefully by keeping in mind there ARE people like Von Brunn and the people mentioned in my comment above, we can continue pointing out that these types of behaviors are unacceptable, no matter which side they are on.

Sign at a Tea Party in Wash.

"Time to water the tree of liberty"

This was taken from  the Jefferson quote "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of Patriots and TYRANTS"

Who is the patriot and who is the tyrant?

watering with water okay, watering with blood obviously not.

Adding a little Miracle Grow is good, too!  :P

Here is a fine example of psychosis:

 "I surely can blame the Democrats for this one, they have for 30 years been saying our soldiers are baby-killers"

and in the same rant:

"Obama, the baby killer voted..................,"

Obama the baby killer? This guy is no different than Scott Roeder. I hope his bomb vest goes off prematurely.