Only in America

I would hold any of these incidents solely within the confines of America, as I'm sure similar instances have occurred around the world. Is there another specific point you're trying to make here or are you just pissed off at current events? Not being flippant, just trying to understand here.

I'm not even pissed off. I just have to wonder as to the wisdom of given terrorist and murderers civil rights.

It may be hard to take at times, but that's par for the course when you stand on principles. No one every said it would be easy or understandable, but it's fair and just according to our democratic system we have based our society upon. I'd be careful of deciding who should lose their rights and who doesn't, it could easily happen to you and perhaps your perspective would change at bit should that ever occur.

Okay granted, November Girl, I hear you, too. Maybe I’m not clear on this and certainly not a scholar of constitutional law, but isn’t it a legally recognized country who has to declare war on us and have we not issued a declaration against al Qaeda or the Taliban through Congress and the War Powers Act because they aren't a country or nation?

I can see the hypothetical concerns, but a suspect could very well walk on the same technicalities in a military court. The Ft. Hood shooter is reported to be planning to use an insanity defense in his trial.

If we are a nation built upon the rule of law, should we start deciding who arbitrarily decide who should receive it and who doesn’t? For me, it doesn’t matter what nationality the perpetrator of the crime hails from, if we are considered equal under the eyes of God why does that change once you get to America?

If you were declared by the government to falsely be an enemy combatant, would you feel justice would be aptly served to you if you lost access to those rights?

I'm glad your loved ones made their journey home without further incident and we shoud all be thankful for that as it could very well have gone much differently had Captain Underpants been successful.

Finding him guilty won't be a stretch, but as I said earlier, if we are a nation governed by the rule of law, why should that change for certain people especially when we aren't officially at war with his country of origin?

What rights are being taken away from American citizens by terrorists being tried through the criminal justice system and why the heightened concern now, when it’s been done with much success in the past? There appears to be no precedent to support any hypothetical claims, although it’s always a remote possibility in any case, in any court.

“I'm no lawyer or constitutional law scholar either, but I am aware that precedents can be set and rights can be lost.”

Yes, we’ve seen that occur with the passage of the Patriot Act. I've heard of far more incidents of this legislation being used against American citizens than successful use as a tool against terrorist suspects, but then again, I don't have access or authorization to national security documents either. The closest I could find is information compiled by Transactional Records Access Clearinghouse (TRAC) for September, 2009. Only 25 cases were brought forth and the stats on how its been applied against civilians is a bit more difficult to obtain.

New Report Demands Congress Reverse Key Parts of Patriot Act (The Public Record)

“I’m not postulating that individuals suspected of terrorism shouldn’t be granted a trial.”

Neither am I. Where I seem to be in disagreement with the general consensus here on this thread is the fact that I believe that there is no harm or loss of rights by terror suspect being tried in a civilian court of law.

“Should the rights of non-citizen terror suspects supersede the rights of American citizens who look to their government to protect them from terrorism?”

No, they should considered equal as first off, in America you are presumed innocent until proven guilty and second, if you are a suspect, you’ve been apprehended - so wouldn’t it be safe to say that the imminent threat has been thwarted?

“As you point out, the parameters of the Geneva Convention are outdated ...”

I made no such assertion and feel that the Geneva Convention is satisfactory. America can no longer try to make the parameters set forth in said document to fit the nation’s objectives all while practicing violations of their own and ignoring the judgments passed down by the International Court (i.e. torture).

“We have no upper hand in the war against terror if we have to be at war with "the nation of origin" to technically be at war.”

Then simply, there is no war. You are fighting militarily an enemy that can’t be defeated in that particular method and is fruitless. Terrorism isn’t new and has been on this planet since the dawn of man’s existence. There will always be a group or person who will be determined to bring harm to us at one point or another, but for me, there’s no need to change what currently exists in our national and international laws in order to accommodate what America perceives as a different type of terrorist. There is no difference and it becomes even more dangerous for American citizen’s rights when you begin to make distinctions.

But we did see a loss of individual rights in exchange for protection under the Patriot Act and it has been used more to prosecute ordinary Americans. Now, we can begin to erode those rights and it’s not like this hasn’t been done before (the suspension of habeas corpus during the Civil War, the interment of Japanese-Americans during WWII, etc.) during periods of war, but they were never so inclusive of the American public’s individual rights before. It is a choice we need to make and one that will prove difficult to find a medium on.

To be honest, I find the argument of civilian versus military trials as showing little faith in a civilian court system that has so far managed to successfully prosecute 195 cases of terrorism since 2001 with a 91% resulting in convictions according to the Justice Department. I certainly don’t wish to see the return of kangaroo courts in this or any other country, in which the outcome of the trial is already decided before it begins.

As for the release of classified information, there is ample enough legal authority for U.S. Attorney’s to keep such information secret from the public record. I won’t say there’s no validity in the concerns, but it’s mostly fear mongers being perpetrated to an already scared and paranoid general public.

If we wish to change our principles in exchange for a sense of security, then we can do that but we can not then tell other nations we are built upon the democratic principles and values that our nation structured around to operate on or will we remain to be the “land of the free”. That would then come with exceptions.

Now , I guess I know why, those terrorists countries laugh at us... And dont forget that they can come to this country, try to kill us but yet we will have the taxpayers pay for their defense.... How stupid is this??? They arent even citizens.... Does it say in the Constitution that we are to appease these murderers?

Exactly. Let's not have life for Americans because we give our rights to terrorists with bombs in their panties.

I don't think we are appeasing them by giving them a TRIAL.

Yes, the Constitution GUARANTEES a fair trial. This is AMERICA!!!

Is there another part of the Constitution you disagree with?

The rights set forth in the Constitution is for Americans. It's fine for the creeps who set their friends on fire in dumpster but have rights as Americans, but do we have to be so darn fair to terrorists? No. That's not a constitutional right.

Yes America where we have TRIALS by JURY.
That is where our freedom LIVES!
Only in America is a person innocent untill PROVEN guilty.
Only in America can a race remark be turned into a slur, yet the spinner lets his own party off the hook. (see teaparty Dale Robertson)

Only in America can kooks spin DEATH PANEL out of nothing, imagine what OUTRAGE they can spin out of heated HealthCare debate.

America is truly land of the FREE!

Nothing is free. There's a price for everything.

Came across an excellent article some might find of interest and argues for the rights to be extended to all who commit crimes against the U.S. and its citizens.

Does Anyone Deserve Constitutional Rights?

Thanks Stacy. We, Americans don't deserve the Constitutional rights, but we are given them, and for that I am thankful. I do however, object to giving them to jerks with bombs in their underwear who are not Americans.

Can't rol with you on that one, Kent. We absolutely deserve the constitutional rights our nation guarantees and I am very thankful for them. Just think, without them this conversation we're having may not have been possible.

Funny thing about the law, it doesn't care what's morally or socialy right or wrong, but whether it falls within the confines of it. It may suck at times, but it's what makes us unique in the world and attracts so many to our shores.

Let us not forget why we have those rights of only in America! It was brave people who fought for us to have that right.
I came from a very proud family, serving this country, today I sometimes wonder why fight to save the freedom for those who don't want freedom anymore, so many people today want the government telling them what to do and when to do it. Our service men and women still fight to save those that condem them...I guess some just don't get it.
I sometimes wonder, if some of these people ever had family brave enough to fight for the USA, none of us like a war, but sometims one has to fight to save there freedom.

I do and have. My husband was an active-duty Marine from 1973 to 1987; I have a daughter currently serving in the Navy; two uncles who served in WWII and Korea respectively and my son (16) is thinking about enlisting, so I'm well aware of the sacrifices and the unwavering desire those who serve have had to fight for all of our freedoms. The difference is that I expect our government to place us in these difficult situations intelligently, with solemn and grave thoughts only when absolutely necessary. With the Iran and Afghanistan conflicts, I don't think that was done.

Stacey I don't have the answers either, it is a tuff decision no matter who has to make it, one is suppose to have advisors, to help make those decision's, I wish I knew the answer to ending this corruption, in our government.
I wish people could rally together, each party give a little to make it easier on every one, come closer to there way of thinking, meet in the middle, to work together to make judgement calls, but I don't ever see this happening.
None of us can see what will happen down the road, but some of us, do see evil taking over bit by bit, I want freedom of choice for all people, I do not care for dictatorship way of life at all. One health insurance company we had made me go to a Dr I did not know and it was 40 miles away, when my on Dr is 5 miles away...something about this picture is not right.

Good points, James.

There is nothing more important to us than individual freedom. That's what makes us the greatest country on earth. Here the people are in charge and get their justice. Not the Government.

Yeah Kent! I'm with ya!!

Way to bring up 5 instances that could be interpreted as rare happenings and make them into mountains!

Yeah, way to strike one up for TRUE AMERICANS and not those who would give a fair trial to all human beings!!!

Yeah, way to think objectively and look at both sides of the issue or even different sides of all issues unlike SOME people who just want to offer our justice and liberty to EVERYONE!!

Right on Kent, you da' man with your finger pointin' and cynicism. We should just kill em' all!!! There must be billions of those teerorists living right under our noses. We should fumigate em' out with our scanners and profiling since Ann Coulter says that they are all Muslim anyway.

And for all those "people of interest", we should just lock em' in a room and run water over their face until they pee themselves!!!

Right on Kent, keep truckin'

Only in America. It's a great land, that is not perfect. But in many ways it's better then the other choices.

Only in America.