Jehovah's Witness, Nathan Phillips, Cut-off from Family after Leaving Religion

It's a no-brainer, in my opinion, that you do not put yourself into a position where men rule over you and make you a victim if you do not follow their ways. It is ONLY EVER up to God, and that is all.

Right on mate thanks for pointing this out,please understand though that some like myself were *born into* these situations and escape only after being f**ked over.There was no way to frame with normal when you are indoctrinated at birth.

Jehovah's Witnesses are a cult or high control group because they cut you off (harsh shunning) for dissent of any kind.

Scientologists declare their outcasts "suppressive persons."
Another Scientology policy - called "disconnection" - forbids Scientologists from interacting with a suppressive person. No calls, no letters, no contact.

An SP is a pariah. Anyone who communicates with an SP risks being branded an SP himself.
Jehovah's Witnesses disfellowshiped person (DF) is exactly the same as Scientology suppressed person (SP)
Jehovah's Witnesses are EXACTLY the same

my story at www . DannyHaszard (dot) com

HOTEL CALIFORINIA check in but can't check out

Most people who "join" Jehovah's Witnesses are born into the creed as indoctrinated youth and about 70 percent do end up leaving under very ugly circumstances shunned as traitors.
Any Watchtower troll who says that JW will 'just let you walk away' are willful liars.The thing is any active or EXJW who reads that propaganda knows it's a lie and most of the general population know about JW severe shunning so go ahead and deny lie all you want,we know better.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/191157/1/Not-Getting-Over-It-Ex-JWs-Face-Residual-Psychological-Physical-Damage

I agree with Jeff.

When my Jehovah's Witness mother died in 1992 I did not know she had passed away until it came up in the social security database in 1993.I was completely cut off and treated as DEAD all because I was disfellowshipped for leaving JW and becoming a born again Christian.
I was not allowed to comfort my own mother in her last days,even though I was the family anchor,with the most money,most energy who always took care of my clan.

As for me, I don't place any blame on the SDA Church, it's leading elders of faith nor the churches doctrine, for this mans excommunication from the rolls of the church. Inasmuch as he broke his churches vows which are apart of the church's teachings and religious beliefs.

But, the excommunication from paternal and family relationships by the mans family simply because he no longer views their type of religion as being something he wishes to abscribe to nor to believe therein, is the real sin in this case of control type religion verses personal thought of mind.

It is a sad state of affairs when a family disowns one of it's members due to their religious beliefs. This is one of the reasons why a large number of such unorthordox religions which are being taught by independent separist churches may well be writing their own obituary.

It is true that man can not live by bread alone, however it is just as true that man can not live by religion alone either. Personally, I believe that creditable morality and a sincere belief in an Almighty God is far more important to the salvation of any man, than the churches teachings or the church it's self.

Hopefully, this man will be able to pickup the peices of his life and continue on without having his family near for personal relationship and comfort of mind.

55 reasons Jehovah’s Witnesses will never be reformed
by Frank J. Toth


1. Teaching that true Christianity is an organization instead of a way of life
2. Claiming salvation is dependent upon belonging to the JW denomination
3. Claiming that the organization speaks for and is controlled by Jehovah, thereby equating the organization with God himself

4. Centralizing authority in an organization instead of letting Christ be the head of each Christian
5. Claiming that the “faithful and discreet slave” is the “anointed class” rather than each individual Christian who shows himself or herself to be responsible and obedient to Christ
6. Teaching that the early Christians were led by a governing body

7. Teaching that Jesus appointed the “anointed remnant” as his true church in 1919
8. Viewing the so-called “anointed” class (actually, the governing body) as God’s channel and prophet
9. Placing WT literature above the Bible


10. Frequently taking Bible texts out of context in order to build support for the organization’s man-made teachings and procedures

11. Teaching that Jesus returned in 1914 and is “invisibly present” since then
12. Teaching that Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 BCE when no historical records confirm this and the actual date is believed by nearly all historians to be 587 BCE

13. Falsifying the fact that Charles Russell predicted for 1914 the end of the world, not Christ’s return
14. Lying about a so-called “increase” in earthquakes, warfare, famines, persecution, etc., since 1914
15. Contradictorily condemning military organizations and frowning upon JWs who choose alternative service in lieu of military service while the headquarters organization at the same time owns stock in a military product organization (REGI)


16. Taking a conflicting stand with regard to the United Nations, claiming that it is the “wild beast” of Revelation that leads all nations in a fight against God and Christ at Armageddon, but signing on as an NGO member and publishing articles that present the UN in a favorable light
17. Teaching that it’s wrong to celebrate birthdays and all holidays
18. Teaching that Abraham and the faithful men and women of old are not among the holy ones who will rule with Christ in his Kingdom
19. Interpreting Jewish restoration prophecies as fulfilled in “the anointed remnant”

20. Teaching that the Scriptures are directly addressed only to “the remnant of anointed ones”
21. Teaching that only the “anointed” must be born again
22. Teaching that the “great crowd” are not begotten or anointed by the Holy Spirit

23. Teaching that the “great crowd” are God’s grandchildren and not his sons and daughters
24. Teaching that the “great crowd” are not members of the bride of Christ
25. Teaching that Jesus is not the mediator between God and the “great crowd” of Revelation chapter 7


26. Teaching that the resurrection of the “anointed” precedes the resurrection of the “other sheep” and that it has already begun
27. Teaching that only “anointed” JWs will receive immortality in the resurrection
28. Inviting only the “anointed” to partake at the memorial

29. Claiming that spiritual food comes from the “anointed” class whereas nearly all the writers of WT publications are members of the “other sheep” class

30. Creating a climate of fear by authoritarianism
31. Controlling what individual JWs may read of Bible-related publications that are not produced by the WT Society
32. Arrogantly pretending that the JW organization maintains higher standards than any other religion and proclaiming publicly that all other churches are members of Babylon the Great

33. Forbidding attendance and participation at other churches
34. Class distinctions such as “governing body,” “anointed remnant” and “great crowd of other sheep”
35. Class distinctions such as publishers, auxiliary pioneers, regular pioneers, special pioneers, circuit overseers, district overseers, Bethelites, Governing Body, etc.


36. Prohibiting women from serving in any meaningful role in the congregation while expecting them to do the bulk of the work in “field service”
37. Constantly prodding the membership by means of literature, meetings and conventions to do ever more and more in the service of the organization, promoting an atmosphere where many feel their best is never good enough


38. Setting dates for Armageddon and thereby urging the membership to abandon normal living, this often resulting in the ruination of health and family life, as well as creating employment and financial hardships

39. Teachings that lead the members to believe righteousness and salvation can be earned by devoted and loyal support of the organization’s slavish programs
40. Keeping meeting attendance and field service records as a gauge of an individual’s spirituality
41. Organizationally requiring no blood transfusions instead of letting it be a matter of conscience, thereby cruelly informing all members that they will be shunned by the organization if they accept a transfusion that might restore health following a life-threatening accident or illness

42. Allowing their own infants and children to die instead of allowing doctors to give them necessary blood transfusions
43. Teaching that the “congregation” of Matthew 18:17 is the body of elders
44. Holding heresy trials and disciplinary hearings in secrecy from the rest of the congregation
45. Withholding information that would be helpful to persons who have been accused of wrongdoing

46. Conducting heresy trials of members who have doubts or who think differently upon the Scriptures
47. Defining apostasy as against the organization instead of against God
48. Being quick to disfellowship instead of making efforts to restore persons who have done something wrong

49. Unnecessarily and abusively shunning members even for minor infractions such as smoking or not complying with the whimsical directives of elders, thereby causing personal and family turmoil that often results in immense guilt, shame, fear, depression, bitterness, hatred, murder and suicide
50. Prohibiting fellowship with disassociated persons who show no inclination toward causing dissension

51. Showing favoritism by advising innocent victims to “leave it to Jehovah” instead of the elders taking decisive action to deal with some members who have been accused of harmful wrongdoing.
52. Ignoring or minimizing clear evidence of child molestation and other abuses simply because only one witness is available to testify against the member accused of such serious wrongdoing
53. Covering over and hiding damaging facts about the JW organization

54. In many cases, neglecting the care of their own sick and elderly members who no longer have the strength and energy to attend all the meetings and to be regular in “field service” as they did for most of their lives

BIGGIE

55. Blatantly lying to the public by declaring to news media that members may leave the organization at any time, of their own free will and without any repercussions from the organization

Are Jehovah's Witnesses Truly Directed By God?


I was continuously taught at meeting after meeting, and fully believed -- as has every Jehovah's Witness that I have ever met and known -- that the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses (also known as the Faithful and Discreet slave and Watchtower Society) are God's Specifically Chosen Channel on the earth today, and that he uses them exclusively to direct his will on the earth and to direct his specially chosen people, the Jehovah's Witness Religious Institution and its members.

The Watchtower Magazine and other Witness literature is believed by Jehovah's Witnesses to be just how God communicates his will on earth today through that Governing Body, God's supposed Instrument of communication. This harmonizes with what the Watchtower Magazine itself has said throughout the years about itself.


1919 "Is not the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society the one and only channel which the Lord has used in dispensing his truth continually since the beginning of the harvest period?" {WT Apr 1 1919 6414}


1933 "To feed or teach his people the Lord has used the Watch Tower publications.. No man is given any credit for the wonderful truths which the Lord has revealed to his people through the Watch Tower publications." {WT Dec 1 1933 263}


1939 "It should be expected that the Lord would have a means of communicating to his people on the earth, and he has clearly shown that the magazine called The Watchtower is used for that purpose." {YEAR 1939 85}


1942 "The Watchtower does not consist of men's opinions" {WT Jan 1 1942 5}


1957 "Jehovah has established a very definite channel of communication through which he deals with his people .. It is vital that we appreciate this fact and respond to the directions of the 'slave' as we would to the voice of God." {WT Jun 15 1957 370}


1969 "Jehovah's organization as directed by his 'faithful and discreet slave' class should influence our every decision also. {WT March 15, 1969 172}


1973 "Only this organization functions for Jehovah's purpose and to his praise. To it alone God's Sacred Word, the Bible, is not a sealed book." (Watchtower; July 1, 1973, pp. 402.)


1979 [Of those living at the time of Armageddon, only Jehovah's Witnesses will be saved] {WT Feb 15 1979 30}


1993 "But if we were to draw away from Jehovah's organization, there would be NO PLACE ELSE TO GO FOR SALVATION"... Watchtower 9/15/93 page 22 :


SEPTEMBER 1996 Kingdom Ministry (Page 1 paragraph 3)

Article titled, Walk by Faith: "We must also be firmly persuaded that Jehovah is leading us by means of his visible organization under the direction of “the faithful and discreet slave."


SEPTEMBER 2002 Kingdom Ministry (Page 8 paragraph 5)

Article Titled, Avoid the Pursuit of Valueless Things: "Bear in mind that our heavenly Father has an appointed channel of communication,“the faithful and discreet slave.” That “slave” has the responsibility to determine what information is made available to the household of faith, as well as “the proper time” for it to be dispensed. This spiritual food is available only through the theocratic organization. We should always look to God’s appointed channel for reliable information—Matt. 24:45."


Clearly then, anybody can see that Jehovah's Witnesses teach the belief that God has chosen only the Watchtower leaders as his "Channel of Communication", and that Jehovah's Witnesses themselves are admonished to follow all of these specific teachings that are published in their literature as if it was coming from God Himself. And as already mentioned, as a 15 year member and elder, this is exactly what I believed as do all Jehovah's Witnesses that I have ever known.

So then, the question remains, are these claim TRUE? Has God chosen The Watchtower as his specific and only religion on the earth?

For me, after a thorough examination of the full range of facts as they truly and honestly are, the answer has become a very clear and resounding NO. If I had known back then in 1990, when I was baptized as a Witness, what I know now today in Nov 2010, I would have never been baptized as a Jehovah's Witness. But back then, when I was studying the bible with Jehovah's Witnesses there was no internet to use to gain valuable information and to examine the Witness faith as well as its history like there is today. I basically took their word for it when it came to information they presented to me, as well as what they present to all potential Jehovah's Witness Bible studies, namely --their version and their side--.

So then what caused this change in my position and belief that God chose the Watchtower and Jehovah's Witnesses as his channel and people?

For me it was a combination of learning about Mistake after mistake having been made (throughout the entire 100-plus year existence of the Watchtower Society); A back and forth Flip-flopping again and again on numerous doctrinal positions; Several well publicized end of the world predictions that Never Came True; Terrible Watchtower Society positions against often LIFE-SAVING medical procedures such as vaccinations, organ transplants and blood transfusions that have literally caused thousands of people to die unnecessarily; the arrogant belief that only Jehovah's Witnesses are true Christians while all others religions and people of those religions will be destroyed unless becoming a Jehovah's Witness;... all this along with a host other strange, inconsistent and even embarrassing teachings and beliefs for over a century now. I have concluded that God would never be behind an organization (that claims he has chosen only them), that has gotten so many things wrong for so long and made so many mistakes, all in verifiable writing, throughout its entire existence on this earth.

This is a link showing just how many mistakes there have been over the years: http://home.tiscali.nl/t661020/wtcitaten/part1.htm


If God were to literally choose just one faith on the earth to represent him and his interests, along with using this same one group to publish his own thoughts, on a variety of subjects and issues, wouldn't it be reasonable to conclude that God would do better than what the Watchtower has done with all of these mistakes posted above?

And while some of these policies have been dropped, reversed, adjusted, never came true etc etc; while they were in effect, Jehovah's Witnesses simply had no choice but to adhere to them, had no choice but to teach them to other people even if they themselves disagreed with them or if they were later proven to be wrong or bad policies. If any Jehovah's Witness did not support whatever policy was in place at that time they would have to face organizational counsel and discipline, which if not properly accepted, would then lead to being disfellowshipped (ex-communicated) followed by extreme shunning and the losing everybody you know including your very own family members. One cannot disagree with any JW current teachings without facing the severest of punishment in times past as well as today.

Which is exactly what happened to me. One simply cannot disagree with any current WT policies without facing the severest of penalties through extreme shunning by all Jehovah's Witnesses. For any Jehovah's Witness that does not comply with these shunning policies, they in turn will face discipline and if not accepting the counsel, they too will then be disfellowshipped and shunned.

I have lost my step son and our first grandchild (now four years old), my brother in law, several business partners, my good name and reputation, I am judged and labeled as some wicked apostate godless man and am shunned by all Jehovah's Witnesses today.

Why so much severe punishment as this? What is my crime to face such consequences? I simply disagreed with the JW blood policy. I did not take blood. I did not tell others to take blood. I simply DISAGREED with this JW policy and now I am shunned, labeled and judged for the rest of my life along with losing some of the very family I raised. Is this loving, fair or Christian? I have done nothing wrong. After concluding, through enormous efforts, that the Watchtower Blood policy is wrong (just like their no vaccinations and no organ transplants policies were wrong before, I simply could no longer with a clear conscience make other people in my territory accept this policy, which is a mandatory requirement if one wishes to become a Jehovah's Witness. And because of this I was going to be disfellowshipped. So instead I disassociated at that very same time.

JW's would like for people to chalk up all those numerous mistakes from the Watchtower Society throughout their entire existence to mere human imperfection. They then often try to compare such Watchtower failures to the mistakes of biblical figures such as King David and the Apostles of the first century. What JWs fails to recognize is that people, as individuals, have always and will always make personal mistakes throughout their lives as imperfect humans. David, Moses, Peter, Paul and many others made mistakes. All Christians today do as well. Even the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses themselves make mistakes as imperfect men.

But as clearly posted above, the Watchtower's Governing Body is said to be "anointed and directed by God Himself." It's in clear print for anybody to read.

But here is the problem: These men of the Governing Body get together as a collective group, they pray for holy spirit to guide them as a collective group, they then make decisions based on being directed by God's spirit as a collective group, they then publish those decisions in their Watchtower magazines made as a collective group and then force those decisions on all Jehovah's Witnesses and expect them to live by those decisions at risk of losing God's favor and threat of disfellowshipping and extreme shunning.

But then when we find out that those decisions had to be dropped altogether, reversed, adjusted, changed and even apologized for, we can clearly see that God was never behind them to begin with. They were wrong the first minute they came off of the presses. God was definitely never behind these many erroneous Watchtower policies despite claims to the contrary.


What JWs fail to differentiate is that Human beings, individually, are allowed to and do make mistakes on a daily basis; including Moses and Jesus own hand-picked apostles. The very Writings (which are claimed to be from God --2Tim 3:16,17 and 2Peter 1:20,21 and Acts 3:21), of these same bible writers however are without mistakes anywhere. When the apostles mistakenly thought the Kingdom was being established at that time, they asked Jesus for clarification. (Matthew 24:1-3). They did not PUBLISH those erroneous thoughts. That's why the bible is what it is today. Many truly believe it is inspired. Otherwise, if the bible writers had the same kind of track record of mistakes as does the Watchtower Society, the bible would be considered as nothing more than some "good book" and that is it. But to most people it is viewed as the infallible word of God. To most people it gets everything correct.

On the other hand, the very writings of the Watchtower Society (which also claims to be "food from God", his "mouthpiece" today, "God's Channel" etc), are filled with mistake after mistake and numerous inconsistencies and eventual embarrasments. Yet JW's usually want to conveniently just chalk it up to "human imperfection".


That simply does not work for most thinking people. The Watchtower cannot get a free pass here on all those past and current mistakes and bad policies while claiming God has anointed them and is directing them and them only. Many JW's try to minimize the mistakes made by the Watchtower Society, as did I for many years. At least the ones I did know about. But you just can't get away with this that easy. How many people DIED solely due to those bad medical policies which eventually had to be dropped altogether? That's how bad they were, most had to be dropped, discarded, dumped because they were just that bad. Was God behind them?

Did Jehovah say No Vaccinations for 23 years and then change his mind and say vaccinations are now okay to have? All the while vaccinations were stomping out polio, smallpox and so much more. Did (((GOD))) get it wrong?

Did Jehovah say Organ Transplants are the same as "Cannibalism" and forbid them for 13 years, only to then change his mind and eventually say Organ Transplants are now okay to have? Did God Himself direct those bad policies only to have to drop them later on? And what about the Jehovah's Witnesses that died by following these policies? Only to have them reversed later. I have read some of these accounts. It breaks your heart to read them.

How many people listened to all of the false end of the world specific dates, published in writing, missed predictions? 1914, 1925, 1975, before the end of the 20th century, before the generation of 1914 dies out and several more than this. Predictions which proved what? Every single one proved False. No hyperbole, all of them. Lives were ruined following the WT leadership with those as well. People gave up families, plans to have children, enjoyable careers... all for what ? For a message that proved untrue over and over again. How "faithful and discreet" is this? What does this say about the WT Society Organization to most people then? What does that say about ANY an organization? And wouldn't it be reasonable for thinking persons to expect more from a religion that makes the claims of God's Only True Channel Today?

Is it a lack of faith on the part of intelligent people that reject the Watchtower Society based on so many bad policies and mistakes over the years along with numerous current bad policies? Or would it be irresponsible to just look the other way? Truth can stand up to any challenge. It can hold up to vigorous cross-examination. Yet the average JW knows very little of this past, and just goes along with whatever they are told. So did I. Do people such as myself and many others leave the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses because we have now been blinded and have a wicked heart? Or did we leave because they WERE blinded and NOW have all of the important information to make a better, more educated and complete decison?

How does anybody just go from all these mistakes for the past 100 years made by the Watchtower Society, to the Watchtower Society is the "One True Faith"? The reason is simple; most Witnesses have no idea about these many things I have posted here, just like I never knew about them for 15 years as an active Witness.

And when mistakes are eventually realized by Jehovah's Witnesses, and new information or a new direction has to replace the old mistaken information or direction by the Watchtower Society, then the Watchtower likes to conveniently call it, "New Light". As if God has somehow revealed something miraculous again. This works and even gets people excited for most Witnesses readily accept this information since they already believe God has chosen them alone to begin with. But one clear look at the reality would show most thinking people that "new light" has not been revealed at all; but rather, more bad information, mistaken policies, false predictions and wrong beliefs simply need to be replaced due to the realization that these old policies and beliefs are simply proven to not be true.

The generation of 1914 never dying off for example. They had no choice BUT to drop that and find something to replace it with. And then changed it again. The recent change that the 144,000 has not been sealed but is still open. (After all the number of those partaking has only been going up.) Organ Transplants not ever being the same as cannibalism and allowing tens of thousands of people today the added opportunity to live life. On and on we could go filling pages worth of examples that prove new light never happened.

The fact is that new light could more accurately be called blinking light. New light is usually the realization that the Governing Body was simply wrong to begin with.

There are good people from all religions today. This is truly a fact. All religious organizations do make mistakes as well. The WT Society is actually worse than most however. So how can people say this is the one true religion today? How can anybody back such lofty claims as those up, with such a poor track record? I have yet to see that happen anywhere.

If the bible is true Moses parted the Red Sea, manna fell from the sky, prophecies came true. Jesus walked on water, healed the sick, fed thousands, raised the dead and so much more. But the Watchtower Society has an entire history of mistaken policies that have been and still are forced on all Witnesses at the very real threat of disfellowshipping and being shunned for non-compliance. They also boastfully claim "one true faith', while condemning all other religions and people of those religions to destruction if not becoming JW's.

For me today and most people that see all the facts there is nothing there to support such lofty and inflated claims as the Watchtower being chosen by God for anything at all. The WT Society certainly is not dispensing food from God from what the record clearly shows. Because it is quite obvious that God would never be behind all those mistakes again and again along with numerous current unscriptural policies.

Otherwise I would have never left the religion and have to suffer such steep consequences.

All the best,

Vinny

You have to look at the positive in the negative. It is a lonely road but your free if you let yourself be. Go forward and don't look back. Find who you truly are for now is the time to seek your true self and understand all that you knew before you came here.

I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness. It was the worst aspect of my childhood. According to the JW bosses in Brooklyn, Armageddon, when God would murder all who do not obey every diktat of the Watchtower Org. , would occur before the end of the 20th century. The outfit has built a global publishing and property empire built on lies, deceit and totalitarian control of its members' minds and lives. As in dictatorships everywhere, however, modern democratic means of communication are making it increasingly difficult for the bosses to shield their captive subjects from the world beyond. The Jehovah's WItness org. tries to use the internet to promote its poison. It is aware, though, that its followers may come across the mountains of warnings from ex members about the evils and absurdity of the outfit. Thus it tries, desperately, to warn against all the online Satanic forces.

So it seems that all of you were Jehovahs at one time or another. My that is why you are missing the issue. The poor man told them he no longer wanted to be part of the faith, so they excommunicated him. That is like going to the manager where you are employed and informing them you no longer want to work there, so they dismiss you. Most disgruntaled employees only see the bad of their former employer, in this case former faith.
As for his family, it seems that he turned his back on them and their beliefs first. He no longer want to live in the manner his family does. Most likely he also does not wish to hear of chruch's activity. So what is left? How long can a conversation go if you only speak of weather, health, career or drinking?
I am sorry that he feels he as been abandoned, but he is the one who left.

Slight correction; He is the one who came to his Senses and left !!!

this is obviously a statement coming from someone who knows nothing of what he speaks. It was his choice to leave a cult, but not to abandon his family...that's absurd to suggest that it's his fault that his family will not speak to him because he chose a different religion. So, you're saying you would have no problem with every member of your family and all your close friends shun you (basically treat you like you're dead) simply because you changed your mind on religion. That's idiotic, unsympathetic and shows the same kind of conditional love that all JW's have for one another. These stories need to get out to the public so that all can see how much of a dangerous cult this group really is.

Scott,
What I am saying is that Mr Phillips has the right to leave if he no longer agrees with the faith, but he should not play the myrter because they accepted his decision.

And Jason,
As for the family, some of my closest family are JWs and as far as I can tell they are Christian, a bit straight laced, Bible readers, but over all good people. We enjoy each others company when the whole family get together, but have little else in common. They speak of their faith and ears close off, others speak of church happenings and JW ears close. Shunning goes both ways. Yes the JW members of the family are rarely invited to family gatherings. I am sure that will be the case with Mr. Phillips family also.

So far you have made the only legit comments in here, it is obvious you are not a prejudice person, and at least respect your relatives. I am shocked at how many people are so blatantly prejudiced towards Witnesses. My mother studied with them when I was young, and as a family, eventually most of us went to the meetings, and that was for about 6 years. They were in fact the happiest years of my childhood. I met the kindest, most wonderful people I have encountered in my life. Later over a year or so my parents drifted away. They were not D.F.' d or reproved in any way. I do know that Witnesses are never disfellowshiped lightly. It is only a step taken after much prayerful consideration, and talk with the person involved at much length. It is only for unrepentant wrong doing that may affect the young ones in the congregation. If one is sorry there is rarely any public reproof. Only perhaps if the actions were very public--otherwise it can be handled with discretion, and the person heals over time. If one is D.F.'d after a few to several meetings with the individual brother or sister not willing to adjust their thinking on spiritual matters and conduct unbecoming to a Christian, then sadly they may be disfellowshiped. This is not done lightly. It is something Witnesses cry over, so many tears have been shed for these ones, I know.decided he no longer wanted to be a Jehovah's Witness, and upon expressing his feelings to the elders at his local congregation, Nathan was told he would be immediately disfellowshipped, a Jehovah’s Witness term for excommunicating/ (Does anyone gripe or moan being excommunicated from the Roman Catholic Faith? Just curious--all seem to really jump on the Witness faith for that?) Thank you for making a few genuinely sane comments on behalf of a people I happen to hold in high esteem.

Petrushka and Henry. I remember many delightful and kind hearted people in the Kingdom Hall of my childhood. I was never baptised, so when I drifted away no one was obliged to shun me. It took several years, however, and masses of reading, before I was satisfied that the JW message was not only cruel and frightening; it was bunk. Kindly as individuals may be they are taught to believe that all who do not obey, to the letter, every diktat from the JW bosses in Brooklyn, deserve to be murdered by God at the imminent Battle of Armageddon. This prospect gave me nightmares. I was saddened at the idea that God would murder all my non JW friends and family before the end of the 20th century, and that life 'in the world' beyond the Kingdom Hall and its works, was not worth living. Here's a talk of mine on the subject:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJxbgYStPUc

JWs are clever, not only with their mind control; techniques, but also, to an extent, with their PR training. A friendly doorstep matter and neat dress belies a thoroughly cruel and totalitatarian cult.

It is easy for each/any of us to find fault with any religion, faith, gospel or the teachings of a church or culture which is not to our personal agreement as to religious ideology. However, responses of/with ridicule towards religious beliefs that are contrary to our own beliefs is quite the opposit to our heritage as well as our culture today.

I say this, inasmuch as this country was first inhabited by a small group of people who were seeking a place were they could be free from religious persecution. A small group and a small start towards religious freedom, which today has brought almost every religion, church, group, sect, cult and subculture to our country where such group(s) of people are free to practice their beliefs without fear of persecution or retribution.

We all seek God in our own way, be it through fellowship with people having similar views, a church of our choice or by personal and private thought of mind.

I personally believe that no matter how or by what means a person chooses to communicate with The Almighty, is not what matters. What does matter, is that a person chooses to believe that there does exist a Savior of Man and it is through ones sincere and honest belief in such an unseen entity will be the path to salvation.

The SDA Church and it's members, aka, "Jehovahs Witnesses", is/are but one among many religions which is being taught and followed in America today. It is for those who attend the SDA church to decided whether or not to believe in the teachings of the church for themselves. It is not for others to judge as to the right or wrong of the churches teachings or the devoutness of it's members. The church is merely a path by which the members attain a closeness with their God and a feeling of satisfaction in their own life.

As I previously pointed out, America is a country where Freedom of Religion is a Sacred Religion in and of it's self and as such, we as Americans have that to be thankful for as well a a Right of Freedom for the rest of the world to envy.

I WAS a JW until 5 years ago. I was even an elder for several years.

And because I simply walked away and disassociated (was not disfellowshipped), I am shunned today by all JWs including one of the three kids I raised that is still a JW now.

It does not matter how good of a person you are. If you were a JW at one time, but then decided some of their ever-changing teachings are not for you, and simply no longer want to be one and leave the religion, THEY WILL ALL HAVE TO CUT YOU OFF FOR LIFE.

THE ONLY EXCEPTION IS RELATIVES STILL LIVING WITH YOU.

And even they have to cut out any spiritual conversations. Yep, even your own child that lives with you cannot speak about religion or God with you once you leave the JW religion. Amazing but true.

Why do all JWs cut you off once you walk awaay? Because if they are caught having a normal relationship with you, THEN THEY WILL BECOME LIKE YOU AND CUT OFF AND SHUNNED BY BEING DISFELLOWSHIPPED THEMSELVES.

This, folks is why so many see the JW religion as a CULT.



And Life defending Watchtower-land, for these poor folks is sure one tough deal.


The Watchtower is not God's anything. FACT OF LIFE!

(Which is why I left after 15 years of being one).



Prove God chose Watchtower JWs.



Cause I got a MOUNTAIN OF PROOF that God never chose Watchtower for anything:

http://home.tiscali.nl/t661020/wtcitaten/part2.htm



The printed page tells it like it is. MANY PAGES.



Sorry JWs but you just keep losing all the time.



Did God get all those EMBARRASSING END OF THE WORLD DATES wrong JWs? (1914, 1925, 1975, 2000, GENERATION OF 1914 ETC)...


Did God get Vaccinations wrong too?


And then 21 years later did God change his mind about vaccinations?


(Or was it possibly because vaccinations were stomping out polio, smallpox, diptheria, measles and more)?


Did God get organ transplants being, "CANNIBALISM", wrong too?


And then change his mind again 13 years later saying organ transplants were not cannibalism after all! (how bout that!).


Did God get, "ALTERNATIVE SERVICE" wrong? (((FOR 50 YEARS))).


Did God change his mind 50 years later and then say alternative service is now okay to do?


Who did all those brothers go to jail for JWs? Was it for Jehovah or for the Watchtower Society?


What about good ole and special BETH-SARIM, JWs? Was Jehovah behind Beth Sarim too? An entire house and property waiting for the ancient worthies to be resurrected and have a place to go to.


Who was Beth Sarim an embarrassment to JW's? Please tell us.


Is it reasonable to expect just a little more from God's channel than all this JWs?



What do you think JWs


Who did all those witnesses that died because of not getting vaccinations or organ transplants die for? Did they die for God or for the Watchtower Society? You tell me JWs.


So please, tell me JWs, are you ready to let your little children DIE if for some reason they need blood? Please answer yes or no. Put yourself in that situation right now before it actually happens.


Are you ready to teach other people in your territory that they too must say no to blood even if death results?


JWs, Are you also ready and willing to shun your children if they get baptized at like 14 but then say, "sorry, but the JW's just ain't for me", at 18?


JWs, do you tell your bible studies that the JW's were FLAT WRONG about those organ transplants, vaccinations, alternative service, Beth Sarim, 1914, 1925, 1975, 2000, Rape Rules, Sex with animals or sex with the same sex not breaking the marital bond along 500 more things just like these?


Do you tell your bible studies all about these many mistakes JWs?


You see, it would be disingenuous of you to only show the one side of the JW picture, don't you think?


People have a right and you have an obligation to show people the COMPLETE JW PICTURE.


Most bible studies only know what JW's tell them in their little bible study books. (I bet you all know this now). And NOWHERE does it mention all these problems that destroy the WT Society as being used by God for anything at all.


If the Bible is True:


Jesus walked on water.



Moses parted the Red Sea.



A Cloud followed the ark of the covenant.



And the JW religion owns this bad boy: http://home.tiscali.nl/t661020/wtcitaten/part2.htm



Do you see the slight difference here JWs?



This is why many people after knowing the entire JW range of facts end up walking away altogether. Just like I did almost five years ago now.



And this despite the fact that we will be judged as wicked, as some apostate, be labeled, shunned and lose almost everything we have.



Is this fair JWs? Is this scriptural JWs? No, it is neither... and I have examined all the scriptures many times and in great detail. No scripture supports this unfair abuse of power and loss of friends, family and reputation.



I hope you take the time to honestly examine all these things JWs.



Be ready to cut-off your own children just because they don't want it. Because you just might have to. It happens more than you know.


So JWs, the next time you try to push JW's are God's channel today nonsense please do not get offended when I fall out of my chair laughing.



You all have many questions all over this site that you have put on your lap.


And then you ALL always run like a fast little rabbits...


And do the JW dance moves out the door...


Silly JW's.



AND THIS IS WHY YOU KEEP GETTING SPANKED!!!


No JW that I have ever encountered or debated with can defend the sorry JW past plethora of embarrassing mistakes..


This is where you cross the line, lose badly and then get buried and spanked all on the same thread.


Why not just say this is a pretty good religion for me and leave it at that?


Why arrogantly teach that you must be a JW, JW's are the truth, God uses only JW's, JW's are God's people all the while you have pages and pages of PROOF that God never chose the JW's for anything, never got all those things wrong for 100 plus years and has not picked the Watchtower for anything at all.


This is your problem. And this is where you JWs are in denial. And what you run away from again and again.


The JW religion is just that another religious institution and nothing more. The facts prove this again and again over and over.


JW's preach (((THE JW))) message. And that is it.



You know the one that said (in writing) that the end would come in 1914, 1925, 1975, before the generation of 1914 died, the year 2000. The JW message that forbids blood transfusions, that forbidded organ transplants, vaccinations, alternative service etc etc etc.... The one that says no beards, no holidays, no school sports or plays, no cub scouts, no red cross, no salvation army etc etc etc


THAT is not the biblical message at all.


And remember this fact: Before JW's ever showed up on the scene, Christianity was already GLOBAL!!! Now how did that happen do you suppose?


I am telling you that God's hand is with my life. Now how does that happen JWs if I left his organization as you al laughably claim??


I would be delighted to have proven to me that the Watchtower is what I thought it was for 15 years. I have debated with some of the most capable JW's in many places. But the results just prove what I have already known for some time; that the JW religion is not what they say about themselves.


It's not a matter of my winning anything. It's truly a matter of putting the issues on the table and with an open mind coming to reasonable conclusions based on the whole range of facts and information.



I have proven to myself (and my family as well as God Himself) that I am willing to be WRONG.That I am willing to be adjusted. That I can accept new information regardless of the consequences.


After all I became a JW.


And then I was willing to leave the JW's despite heavy consequences.


What else do you need to see to realize I am willing to be proven wrong... or right... whatever the case may be.


Truth is worth the effort and or consequences for me.


That's what this journey called life is all about.


And my Heavenly Maker knows this because I talk about it every day that I am alive. But you guys think I am some kind of godless apostate. Whatever works I guess.


I did it too for 15 years.

Living with blinders is no way to live at all!

If the bible is true Jesus did many amazing things to prove God was with him.


If the bible is true Moses did many amazing things that prove God was with him.


And this sorry list is what JW's have to prove God is with them today??


http://home.tiscali.nl/t661020/wtcitaten/part2.htm


All from their own literature.


The printed page tells it like it is JWs!


Like I've said many times now; the Watchtower's greatest enemy today is its own literature.


Vinny

I am ashamed at you skeptics and apostates...This apostate (Like Mr. Harszard and Vinny) knew what he was doing...he knew smoking was against the faith...THE BIBLE!!!!! as is drinking heavily and carousing... Vinny and Haszard seem to rely heavily on their own opinioins...that are misplaced...It is true the JW have made mistakes in the past...so did Paul and Peter and the rest of Christ's apostles...The apostles of Jesus argued all the time...and got many things wrong...BUT, the reason we know we are God's chosen people and represent him on the earth...is becasue when we (The Watchtower) has made mistakes in the past...we admit it!

Old Mr. Haszard and Vinny here do not say nothing of the mistakes the Apostles made...Like Peter denying Jesus three times...or Peter refusing to eat with the gentiles or the circumcisim issue or the fact that even on the night of Jesus' death the apostles were arguing who was greater....In fact, the apostles thought Jesus was going to return in their time and Jesus did not!

So these apostates (Vinny, Haszard and Phillips) want to beat their brothers...that is ok because they beat Jesus also! We are no better than our master...so come on Mr. Haszard and Vinny...beat us all ya want...we are worthy to receive your attacks...we expect them and we welcome them...It makes us know we have the truth.

One thing this article failed to bring out is that the JWs are the fastest growing faith in America! Bible prophecy...The Mountain of Jehovah will gorw above the mountains:

(Micah 4:1) 4 And it must occur in the final part of the days [that] the mountain of the house of Jehovah will become firmly established above the top of the mountains, and it will certainly be lifted up above the hills; and to it peoples must stream.

Well Mr. Haszard and Vinny...it is happening before your very eyes...stand up and see the Glory of Jehovah as his prophecy unfolds before your very eyes. In spite of your feeble attempts to discredit Jehovah and his organization...and, to that organization People will stream!!!!!!!! Guess what? They are streaming to the House of Jehovah!!!!

The Poor JW's like Daro here think that JW's are God's "chosen ones" today.


hahahahahahahahahahahah

And as a "COLLECTIVE GROUP" (((THIS))) IS WT SOCIETY'S BABY FOR LIFE!


http://www1.tip.nl/~t661020/wtcitaten/part1.htm


Yep, they own that list FOR LIFE and nobody can take it away! Poor Daro.


All from their own literature.


Instead of God's channel exclusively, as Daro says, they are the owner of THAT SORRY LIST-- "EXCLUSIVELY"!!!!.


BIF DIFFERENCE FOLKS.


As a "COLLECTIVE GROUP" the Governing Body (JW leaders) met together and prayed over many things THAT PROVED BAD NEWS AND EMBARRASSMENTS AND EVEN CAUSED MANY JW'S ((((( TO DIE ))))).


As a "COLLECTIVE GROUP" they had to DROP, REVERSE, CHANGE-UP ON AND APOLOGIZE FOR many sorry teachings and beliefs that should never have been forced on porr little JW's that blindly followed this same collective group.


You see JW's and Daro as are spinning their wheeels in the mud all over again.


Nobody buys this kind of nonsense when seeing the entire picture here.


You see (as has been posted too many times to remember now) PEOPLE--(((INDIVIDUALLY)))-- do make mistakes.


Just like Daro here.


Even bible writers, apostles and prophets make personal mistakes.


But COLLECTIVELY--(AS A GROUP OF WRITINGS)-- many people say the bible writings are directed by God.


The bible writers also say this about their writings.


Which is why the bible is not just "some good book", and nothing more to most people. But is instead followed and applied in life because people say bible writers get things RIGHT ALL THE TIME.


You see WT world also has individuals that make mistakes personally. I have no problems with this. Even GB members (and JW puppet boys like Daro) will fall very short. That's life!


But you see folks, there is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between making mistakes personally, and then publishing mistakes COLLECTIVELY AS A UNIFIED BODY.


When the Governing Body meets ((((( COLLECTIVELY AS A BODY )))) ---



AND THEN PRAYS TOGETHER FOR HOLY SPIRIT COLLECTIVELY AS A BODY---


STUDIES WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS ON SPECIFIC ISSUES (AS THIS COLLECTIVE GROUP) ---


MAKES DECISIONS BASED ON THOSE PRAYERS AND THEIR BIBLE UNDERSTANDING AFTER MUCH THOUGHT, PRAYER AND DELIBERATION ---


AND THEN (((PUBLISHES))) THOSE DECISIONS IN THEIR LITERATURE (as food from God himself) ---


HAVE C.O.'S AND D.O.'S GIVE OUTLINES BASED ON THESE SAME DECISIONS AT MEETINGS, ASSEMBLIES AND CONVENTIONS PUSHING AND CLARIFYING THESE PUBLISHED TEACHINGS ---


AND THEN HAVE RANK AND FILE JW'S (((BE FORCED TO APPLY))) ALL OF THESE NEW UNDERSTANDINGS AND JW TEACHINGS AT RISK OF JUDICIAL COUNSEL AND DISFELLOWSHIPPING ---


ONLY THEN TO BE PROVEN WRONG, BAD IDEAS, EMBARRASSMENTS; HAVE TO CHANGE THEM, DROP THEM, APOLOGIZE FOR THEM AND MORE ----


((((((( IT CLEARLY PROVES THAT GOD WAS NEVER BEHIND THESE IDEAS OR WITH THOSE THAT MADE THEM AND FORCED THEM AT ALL!!! ))))))


JW's like poor ole Daro have lost on this thread once again.


They all get embarrassed even trying to defend all this WT humiliation.


Take another LOOK:

http://www1.tip.nl/~t661020/wtcitaten/part1.htm


So folks let's all do a little math JW style!


1- According to Jw's like Daro, "God's spirit" is with the JW's while they make decisions based on God's infallible word.


2- Those decisions are wrong again and again and again. Proving embarrassing mistakes for WT world, causing people to lose out on many things like buying homes, getting education, not having families, kids, pets, not being of 144,00, and more.


Those decisions led by the same "God's spirit" also cause some JW's to (((DIE))) and to go (((TO PRISON))) for no reason for many years including RIGHT NOW.

In many cases the JW's HAD NO CHOICE BUT TO CHANGE AND ADMIT THEY WERE WRONG.

You see 1914 came and went.


1925 came and went.


Beth Sarim (was huge WT embarrassment) and came and went.


1975 came and went.


The generation of 1914 came and went.


The 20th century came and went.


Vaccinations stomped out polio, diptheria, tetanus, flu, cholera, measles, mumps, yellow fever, rubella and more.


Organ transplants were never the same as "cannibalism" as Wt land stated and have saved or extended hundreds of thousands of lives.


Many times dropped doctrinal understanding has been brought back.


That aint not "light getting brighter" folks.


That's called (((BLINKING LIGHTS))).


GOD WOULD NEVER GET THESE THINGS WRONG IN TEH FIRST PLACE!!!


(Poor lil Daro, and his laughable claims just got flushed away.)


You see this is why JW's like Daro are fighting a losing battle. The WT was never God's anything at all. One look at the whole picture proves this without a doubt to any rational mind.


But change is tough for some. It is not easy to see the truth for some JW's like Daro.


That WT land is not what they say about themselves. That there is NO PROOF ANYWHERE that supports God has been using WT Society.


In fact there is a MOUNTAIN OF PROOF that God has never used them:

http://www1.tip.nl/~t661020/wtcitaten/part2.htm


Deal with that for a while JW's and Daro.

For example:

Was God's spirit with WT when they said Organ Transplants was a "conscience" matter in 1961?


Was God"s spirit with WT when they then said organ transplants are same as "cannibalism" in 1967?


Or was God's spirit with WT when they said Organ Transplants are NOT the same as cannibalism in 1980?


Was God behind all those changes each time?


Did (((GOD))) get all those things wrong each time?


Did God cause folks ((((TO DIE)))) by listening to the WT Society as the voice of God?


AND THIS IS JUST ONE THING!!!


We can do this same song and dance THOUSANDS OF TIMES.


Yet JW's like Daro have no answers except to say Vinny is lying, exaggerating, apostate, misrepresnting blah blah blah (with zero facts and arguments) AND THAT IS IT.


And that would be because JW's like Daro CAN'T REPLY!!!


Just try to throw some lame tag and label on Vinny


That's how bad defending WT world has become.


Just telling you how it is.


Sorry JW's. Sorry Daro

But Watchtower is not God's anything.

vinny