The Trayvon Martin autopsy showed marijuana was found in both the blood and urine of the 17-year-old boy that George Zimmerman claims was beating his head against the concrete right outside a residence in the gated community where Zimmerman lived and served as a neighborhood watch member.
The Guardian reported that the drug-related news about the dead youth was released this week by Florida prosecutors in the form of case documents.
Those documents revealed Martin had traces of the drug THC, which is the "primary psychoactive ingredient of marijuana," in his body a whole day after he died.
According to the National Institute of Drug Abuse, THC is but one of 400 chemicals found in marijuana. However the main mind-altering ingredient in the illegal substance is THC, a powerful drug.
Additionally, since Martin's blood and urine were not tested until one day after his death, the amount of THC found in his blood and urine would have been much higher if the autopsy had occurred immediately following death, revealing a more realistic picture of why George Zimmerman had to scream help "14 times in an approximate 38-second time span."
Some who may have smoked the illegal drug in the 1970s believe that it is not as serious a drug as say heroin; however, it has been growing more and more dangerous in chemical strength and composition with each decade since, with NIDA reporting that it now contains 10 percent THC, alone.
And that's not including any of the other 400 chemicals found within it--or if it is used in conjunction with alcohol or other drugs.
The heart rate of marijuana users can increase 20 to 50 beats per minute, or it can increase double that. And NIDA says that effects of teen use of marijuana and other drug combinations can be "unpredictable."
If Trayvon Martin had high amounts of THC in his system at the time of his attack on Zimmerman, that would go a long way in explaining why the older man couldn't handle the youth's physical assault and pulled a weapon in his defense.
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Comments: 89 ( 5 removed by Hillary Hill )
The other aspect of this case that is troubling to me is that if a state is going to be wishy washy about backing up people once they "stand their ground" in such situations, then why have the law on the books in the first place?
They have to back up people that used the law rightly and then do away with the law if they don't want to be accountable that way in the future. But to release a man after such a death, finding no wrongdoing on his part, and then haul him into police custody based on angry protestors later is just plain wrong.
We are seeing photos and autopsy findings that prove this kid was beating Zimmerman as Zimmerman said. It's evident that since Martin had no marks on him, showing Zimmerman didn't lay a finger on him, that this was never a fist-a-cuff as some would have the public believe. This was a youth who pummeled the neighborhood watch guy.
There's been too many crimes in residential neighborhoods for Zimmerman to be on trial for his life because he stood his ground, lawfully.
Do you girls want to have your minds blown? You have to read this Gather article, and what this writer has come up with, in her own mind, about the autopsy results. I would have laughed if I wasn't so shocked.
Reno Berkley article
Unfortunately, so many things get added to marijuana now to increase its potency, so who knows...
I tried to access the article link but couldn't for some reason. What's being said?
Unfortunately, with the media's help, people were given wrong information to begin with--and some outlets have an obvious racial agenda going, so they will continue to play that up.
It's unfortunate, since this is a clear case of "Stand your ground" that escalated to an unfortunate death. You should look over the documents and then determine what you think. The more I read of them, and look at the Zimmerman photos, the more I'm seeing a case in which Zimmerman should be cleared on the state's self-defense law.
RF, the death penalty could be used in a hate crime case, which is what the FBI was looking into recently. Although I think, based on what we know now, it will not be called a hate crime.
Is all still relevant until the pieces can be put together. The hate crime thing really disturbed me, as it seemed to have come out of nowhere.
OK, now to your debate issues:
1-Bloody scalps photographed after a police response to an incident is far from circumstantial, and they can be entered into as evidence, just like a dead boy's autopsy findings. It's all relevant to a criminal case, and the judge is going to allow it in for the jury to hear.
2-Screaming in that vicinity was recorded on the 911 tape, which is going to be pertinent and substantiated by witnesses, so you're wrong on that one too.
3-You're right that a jury will have to hear a preponderance of all the evidence in the case and determine if Zimmerman is guilty of 2nd degree murder or not, so I concede that to you.
4-Not sure why you are trying to major on the minor or split hairs about the fact that the state has been wishy washy in the "Stand Your Ground" law in this case.
First, they "stood their ground" and after a thorough investigation and interrogation of Zimmerman, and analysis of the evidence collected, he was allowed to leave police custody, as he should have been under that law.
Then. the state went against its own law by revisiting a case that should not have merited a second look (it had nothing to do with the police going against the law, they backed it up).
The state is the one allowing the law to be contested in this case, in actuality, as prosecutors work for state and local governments (also known as "the state" in legal circles).
5- You are being flip and light-handed in a false manner about the time spent in interrogation and interviews with Zimmerman by law enforcement. Perhaps you haven't read the mound of police reports and investigative documents on the case, or you just like to minimize the facts. I'm not sure which, but it is a disservice to the debate on an intellectual level.
6-For the record, in a court of law, photos and autopsy findings are "evidence" and they get admitted as such. In fact, you will these phrases used for them, "I admit such and such photo as evidence for the prosecution, labeled exhibit A, etc." Please actually know what you are talking about before attempting to correct another R.F. Otherwise it minimizes your credibility.
7-If you don't think the police are charged with the authority on whether to make a "judgment" call on guilt or innocence, you don't know much about police work. It isn't the judge in the judicial system who determines if someone will be arrested or not, or charged with a crime. That ability essentially rests first and foremost with the patrol officer who responds to the scene.
They can issue a warning or haul your butt in if so warranted. That sounds like a judgment call to me, although you misinterpreted my sentence context earlier anyway, to suit your position.
8-Zimmerman is on trial for his life: Life in prison is a possibility of that crime he is charged with, and even if it were not, his life hangs in the balance due to a threat made by the New Black Panthers, if nothing else. Remember, he is in secret seclusion to avoid their "bounty" on his head. The hate crime speech not being addressed by the DOJ, by the way.
In addition, one thing that really drove home to me that Zimmerman wasn't gunning for Martin was a key piece of evidence I saw in those police reports: Only 1 of 9 bullets was ever fired.
AH hahahahaha. Are you out of your mind? You think that smoking marijuana can increase someone's strength? It is not a performance enhancing drug, Jane. Also, trace amounts of THC does NOT indicate that he was "high" at the time when he was murdered. THC remains in your body for up to 8 weeks after using it. A high will only last for a couple hours.
I only wrote one thing about why would the media put out these photos of Trayvon when he was 12. And someone landed on me for it. Later I read he was 3 weeks from 18... when it happened ( a few weeks older than my youngest daughter.) I also read he was 6 foot, 6 foot 1 and 6 foot 3. Yes he was someone's son and yes it is awful he was shot and is dead... but when people do things like putting out a photo of him when he was 12, I felt like there was a reason for it.
Well when you are saying a white man shot a black child in cold blood... when the child is 6 foot or over, you do need to cover up the fact of the height... because I don't know about you, but height is a factor when it comes to looking at someone and trying to figure out their age.
When it turned out that this was not exactly how it was reported... and I think 4 or 5 people working for the news got fired for misrepresenting the facts.. people needed to stop and realize there was some manipulation going on here by the media.
But someone in the media wanted to make this something else... and stir things up. And people are still believing in what they first heard.
I think it is relevant that the blood tests said he had some thc in his blood levels because George said to 911 Trayvon wasn't acting right and if he was high as a kite, it would have affected Trayvon's behavior.
It is an awful tragedy and my heart goes out to Trayvon's parents. I hope all the facts come out so everyone gets a better idea of what really happened that night... then the original hype that people got fired for.
Oh, and I totally agree with the photo issue. It was very misleading. It was also agitating for me to see a photo surface showing him in what looked like a gang banger pose with some other dude and then that was taken down. Never knew if it had been fabricated or was for real.
And I just got through looking at some of those documents that were released and thought: This kid was 6-feet tall. He was taller than Zimmerman, who weighed about 40 more pounds than Martin according to the police reports.
No wonder he was agile enough to get the drop on the shorter man with extra baggage. Even if Zimmerman wanted to run away he wasn't going to get far.
I haven't finished going through all the documents, but already I'm thinking the media was so wrong on this case.
Thanks for reading and taking the time to comment, however. I have to ask: Do you have personal experience with the drug in question, or are you going on something you read? Don't answer that...:-)
If Trayvon Martin had anything besides marijuana in his system (something his dealer added) you would think that would have come out in the autopsy as well. That being said I'm sure that there are dealers who add other drugs to their marijuana to make it more addictive so their customers will keep coming back, that is a valid point. What I want to know is why do you need to delete a link to an article comparing alcohol and marijuana? Are you opposed to giving people all the available information?
About the link, you posted just a link with no identifying info whatsoever. It could have been to Timbuktu for all I know, and since I don't visit websites I've never heard of...and appear to have no legitimacy...I deleted it.
Post a link to something the Mayo Clinic or DEA says on the subject and that will be worthy to be left up on the forum. I don't do "this marijuana legalization advocacy says..." kind of website links though, just so you know what kind of data I'm looking for.
Some drugs do leave the body quickly, so given that the autopsy wasn't conducted right away, it could be a factor in why only the trace amounts of THC were found, despite what Les posts below. Again, I have a good legitimate source on this.
Anyway, I stopped by to show you this, the title is surprising to me, based on previous media coverage, and seeing that it comes from ABC.
What's the story title and I'll Google it. I've crashed too many computers opening links I didn't know. Sorry.
Since Trayvon's heart was pumping blood and he bled out at the scene to some degree, then, yes, I can tell you with certainty that the tox screen might have been lower than it would have been if he had not lost blood at the scene. In addition, at time of death, it isn't uncommon for people to urinate and defecate as well, which also can lead to lower levels at the eventual time of testing.
One thing to remember here, however, is the fact that we just don't know how much of the marijuana had been consumed by Trayvon Martin--and when it was consumed (or how often that day), or even if he had consumed other things along with it (and they were not present in his system at the time of the autopsy).
What we do know is that he did marijuana. That he had been accused of having possession of the substance at school before. That he had more than one run-in over that and burglary suspicion at the school in the past (total of 3 times). And that Zimmerman felt he was acting suspiciously in his neighborhood that night, like school security had felt about him there 3 times previously.
Zimmerman's neighbors, on the other hand, according to the documents now available online from the police, say he was the model resident. He was in his own neighborhood, seeking to protect it from further intrusions, as had occurred several times in the recent past.
The court will instruct jurors to consider a preponderance of the evidence too, and the evidential facts support that Martin had a drug use history, he was using the night in question, and physical photos and medical reports describe Zimmerman's injuries at the youth's hands.
The link clearly said the name of the site, and the article was well sourced linking to unbiased scientific research, not war on drugs propaganda.
Post a link to something the Mayo Clinic or DEA says on the subject and that will be worthy to be left up on the forum. I don't do "this marijuana legalization advocacy says..." kind of website links though, just so you know what kind of data I'm looking for.
So in other words you're only looking for the kind of data that supports the idea that marijuana is a dangerous drug that should remain illegal, and you'll delete anything that contradicts that. Good to know.
Paranoia, yes. Violence, no. In any case Trayvon had every reason to be paranoid whether he was stoned at the time or not what with a crazy guy with a gun following him home at night.
We don't know if Martin knew Zimmerman had a gun or not, but what we do know is if he was paranoid why is that the documents reveal a witness saw Martin attacking Zimmerman...instead of fleeing him. Doesn't sound like he knew Zimmerman had a gun...or he didn't care. Now that's toked up.
Marijuana smokers have been known to commit violent acts after its use, so I'm not sure where you are getting data telling you otherwise, as police agencies across the nation would tell you otherwise. And while that drug use does not warrant a sentence as extensive in length as say other drugs, it can if the person using it kills someone while under the influence.
From links like the one you deleted, well sourced with scientific research.
as police agencies across the nation would tell you otherwise
Really? The police have an interest in spreading the idea that their job of enforcing the ban on marijuana is just? I'm shocked.
Your last comment tells me where you are going with this, if I had any earlier doubt: you want pot legalized. And you don't like any evidence that proves it shouldn't be.
I agree to disagree with you, Char, about "a preponderance of the evidence" because I realize you don't have the insider knowledge I do about cops and how things work with them. So it may be a difference of "facts" to you, but if so, it would just highlight people don't understand the "facts" as they apply to cops and misconstrue the legal language in a myriad of ways in conversations. Like on forum posts.
So, to try and clear things up for any readers still confused, here's what I'm saying, which I think Char agrees with (maybe): If a cop arrives at a crime scene and there's one guy on the ground dead with no visible marks on him except scrapes to his knuckles, and another guy is present holding a gun and is beat up, with bleeding and scrapes to the back of his head and grass and moisture on the back of his clothes, a preponderance of the evidence is probably going to support the guy with the gun acted in self defense against the guy on the ground dead.
The police in Sanford looked at all that evidence, and talked to all the neighbors (to see if anyone saw said dead guy beating the guy with the gun or vice versa), to which they heard a "Yes" and when the tox screen came back with marijuana present in the dead guys system, and they researched both men's history (criminal and other wise), then they, rightly, after a preponderance of the evidence, concluded they had a "Stand Your Ground" shooting and let the suspect (the one they shacked in cuffs, put in a patrol car after the shooting, and stripped of clothes) leave.
When the prosecutor decided whether to try the case this last time (she did a preponderance of the evidence to see if such an action would be supported...and a large number of lawyers from the DOJ "assisted" her in that conclusion).
She thinks a jury will find Zimmerman guilty "beyond a reasonable doubt" in a court of law even though seasoned policemen think the "preponderance of evidence" didn't support intentional killing at all.
OK Jane, we'll just consider probable cause in the police's decision. I was talking about in the criminal court. They may have probable cause to arrest someone based on background, but usually the priors aren't allowed in, because they are ruled too prejudicial. Once they are in court, the facts are presented on the basis of beyond a reasonable doubt. I am sorry to hear that they consider the record to determine who started it, as that is not equal under the law. That is the ultimate form of profiling, even criminals can be victims, like in gang actions against each other.
I don't see any way they can find Zimmerman guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, but I guess maybe we don't know everything. I am Curious to hear who these people are who say he doesn't like blacks, if they even know him. Maybe some hoodlums that he was short with because they were hoodlums, not because they were black.
You must have seen the photo online that I say of Martin, which disappeared right afterward.
And while the death of anyone is tragic, regardless the age, this is a kid who had a history of problems with authority and drugs, obviously. Candy-coating it doesn't make it not so. But that's what can happen when the media gets something in their head, like the new headlines "could have been avoided."
One cop out of hundreds of documents posited that lone position. And that's the headline. lol
They should have asked the cop who said in the documents that every neighbor asked about Zimmerman said he never bothered anyone and was, essentially, just a neighbor who encouraged them to participate in the watch program and maintain peace and order at the residential community. But "Zimmerman law abiding and peace promoting" doesn't make for a good headline, does it?
I love that statement that "Dead men don't continue to burn off their buzz" though. :-)
And you do also bring up a good point about him bleeding out, as some tox screen findings are influenced to lower numbers due to that as well.
The relevance is that it shows Zimmerman might have had good reason to be suspicious of Martin, as he said the youth was acting suspiciously, and he obviously observed behavior that wasn't in keeping with a kid coming from a candy store and going straight back to his home.
Take the time to read those documents now available online and you will note that one girl said he was "hiding out" from the rain near one facility on the property elsewhere. She used the term, which insinuates something more than "getting out" of the rain.
In addition, the fact that the dead youth had drugs in his system supports what the school had said about him before, and that says he wasn't the neighborhood choir boy, as the parents portrayed to the public.
All that is relevant to this case, as it shows he could have been up to no good, just like he was up to no good at the school and they suspended him for 10 days because of it. Zimmerman wasn't the principal or the school security, so Martin obviously decided he wasn't going to listen to anything he had to say.
So the lone policeman who thought Zimmerman should have sat in his car is basically saying "turn a blind eye" as the neighborhood watchman. Oh yeah, like the school was supposed to "turn a blind eye" to the drug use? Not likely.
Regardless of when Martin got high, in general marijuana makes people sleepy and stupid, not aggressive. It's also unclear to me how the results of the tox screen relate in any way to the legal question in the criminal case. It seems to me that the defense is going to have to prove that Zimmerman was attacked since the 911 dispatcher advised him to let police handle the situation.
At this stage of the game we don't really have enough information to make an informed judgment. Given the he said/he's dead circumstances, so far we know that there probably was a fight, although we don't have any information showing that Zimmerman's injuries resulted from a fight with Martin.
My personal opinion, which I readily admit is founded on not enough information, is that Zimmerman made a stupid mistake. Seems like he confronted Martin, the two fought, Zimmerman panicked and shot Martin. I don't know what really happened and I doubt that anyone but Zimmerman and Martin know.
And THC can exit the blood lost from the body, and it can exit the urine and feces passed at time of death as well, so, no, the medical examiner would not necessarily have a good reading of how high Martin was at the time of death given he didn't even do the autopsy until a day later. That points been argued and put to bed already.
It is a mistake to assume that marijuana only makes people sleepy. It can make them do stupid things, show aggression and act in a violent manner. Convicted marijuana users all over the country are proof of that, along with their horrendous violent acts. And the fact that the evidence in the case shows Martin had damage to his knuckles--but Zimmerman was the one with damage to the body--clearly indicates that it wasn't Zimmerman being physically violent with his hands.
I agree with you that the defense will have to show Zimmerman was attacked. The marijuana evidence isn't going to be used by the defense so much as a "he was high so look what he did" scenario, although it could. I think it is going to be the tool the defense uses to show that historically, it was Martin who had a troubled past, and which ultimately supports the fact that Zimmerman said he was encountering a youth who acted suspiciously, just like the school had said of Martin for 3 times, resulting in his inevitable 10-day suspension, which was ongoing during this time.
Martin may not have been under the influence at all for THC to show up in his tox screen. As I said, it persists in the body for six weeks or more after the last use. Even if Martin had smoked dope five minutes before his encounter with Zimmerman it's not evidence of anything except that he had. I'm curious about the large number of violent incidents involving "convicted marijuana users." I'm guessing that poly drug abuse is much more common among people convicted of violent crimes than exclusive cannabis use. As far as I know there is no scientifically established link between cannabis and violent behavior. I'm sure there's some anecdotal evidence. My purely speculative opinion is that stimulants--amphetamines, cocaine, et al--and alcohol are much more likely to be associated with violent behavior. I could be wrong.
The presence or absence of knuckle wounds doesn't really do much to identify the aggressor. It's quite possible that Zimmerman confronted Martin with a gun and Martin, stupidly, tried to take it away from him.
I'm pretty well convinced that even with police reports the general public doesn't have enough evidence to have an informed opinion on Zimmerman's guilt or innocence. I'm not sure we will after the trial.
One thing that's pretty clear from the available information: both Martin and Zimmerman behaved stupidly.
I think that Martin was high, didnt like the fact that Zimmerman was following him and they clashed... Simple as this...
http://www2.tbo.com/news/breaking-news/2012/apr/24/25/two-dead-third-critical-after-shooting-winter-have-ar-396244/
"WINTER HAVEN --
Three Polk State College students were shot – two fatally – Tuesday night as the gunman's 6-year-old daughter watched, officials said.
The suspect, Joshua Davis, 32, told investigators he and the three victims were smoking marijuana together and he shot them to protect his daughter, although police found no evidence the attack was provoked."
So a). he wasn't high at the time of the shooting so the mention of THC metabolites is really quite meaningless.
and b). if he was high at the time that means he would be less likely to be violent.
So in either case the mention of THC is completely irrelevant, and actually hurts Zimmerman's case.